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Harvard to study the orgins of life
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bartii



Joined: 31 Mar 2005
Posts: 180
Location: Boise, ID

PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 10:14 am    Post subject: Harvard to study the orgins of life Reply with quote

I am not sure how Harvard can do this unless they have studied Creationism. I wonder what theories they will come up with? The article what Harvard is doing is below:

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050816/ap_on_sc/harvard_evolution_3

What do you think about this?
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BigDaddy
Site Admin


Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Posts: 148
Location: Orlando

PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2005 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the "Big Bang" theory. God spoke it and BANG it was there!
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basilosaurus



Joined: 16 Dec 2005
Posts: 58

PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 1:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Barti,

Creationism has nothing to do with our scientific origins. Creationism is just one of many creation myths from around the world that have their place in mythology.
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edtheredhead



Joined: 02 Apr 2005
Posts: 81
Location: Northwest PA

PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

basilosaurus wrote:
Barti,

Creationism has nothing to do with our scientific origins. Creationism is just one of many creation myths from around the world that have their place in mythology.


Actually, there is tons of proof for creationism, actually more than there is for evolution. Check out this website:

http://www.answersingenesis.org/

I know that there are others, but I got to run now. I'll try to add more later.
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Married to Margaret (1996)
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bartii



Joined: 31 Mar 2005
Posts: 180
Location: Boise, ID

PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Evolution, like Creation, is a belief system. They both have a belief on what happened in the past to get to the present. Both beliefs or the three beliefs, if you include ID, have the exact scientific facts in front of them. Evolution will say BANG we became. CReationists will say that God created everything. IDers will say that there was a higher power involved.

The problem is most evolutionists, and it is falsely indoctrinated in the government funded institutions, that evolution is science.

Creationist, on the other hand, will say that science is science and Creation is a belief that can be supported by science and the Creator.

It takes more faith to believe in Evolution then it does to believe in Creation. An example would be when information is lost from the genome or DNA of a species the next evolved species(i.e. ape to man) is better then it's ancestorial species. Loss of information makes more intelligence?
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edtheredhead



Joined: 02 Apr 2005
Posts: 81
Location: Northwest PA

PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's another really good website on the science behind Creationism.

http://www.icr.org/
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Married to Margaret (1996)
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Guest






PostPosted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I WOULD SUGGEST AN INDRODUCTORY BIOLOGY COURSE FOR BOTH OF YOU. Evolutionary biology is supported by scientific facts. ID and creationism are unsupported assertions and little more. Furthermore, there is no evidence that information cannot gain in the genome, and you know that it can be changed by way of mutation..

I will cite two examples of observed evolution one observed in the lab, the other in the field.

In the lab the tetraploid orchids produced offspring with twice the chromosones of the parent populations. They were larger and more robust , therefore suggesting that the specified phenotype must of changed. This change is accomplished by copies of info, and can therefore, be seen to have increased info.

A second example is clear evidence of speciation. About one hundred yrs ago Europeans brought with them seeds for a Goatsbeard plant variety. Seventy yrs later after having released it in the USA, the new plants that spread around the country, barely resembled the parent population, furthermore they met the criteria for speciation.....in that they were reproductively isolated from the originals brought over from the old country.

As for your silly attacks on evolutionary theory. I could easily attack the nonsense of the creationist hack site called Answers in Genesis. I would suggest the counter site called "No Answers in Genesis. And while you are at it exp[lain to me why your god made light before the sun, and how he made birds before sea creatures when the evidence clearly and convincingly states otherwise. Or maybe try to offer up an argument against Thomas Paine's "Age of Reason" in which he states that " there is not one known biographer, scribe, historian or writer from the time and place that Jesus is said to have lived, who even mentions him as a man."

Now, if you want to continue digging a deeper whole with such nonsense, the 30% of humanity, whose minds have been enslaved by the nonsensical religious doctrine that you embrace , will eventually stand up and say ENOUGH! File Christianity with the other mythology of the world, and look upon it with the low esteem that it deserves.
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Rich



Joined: 18 May 2005
Posts: 173
Location: Coastal New England

PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 10:54 am    Post subject: Response Reply with quote

Anonymous wrote:
I WOULD SUGGEST AN INDRODUCTORY BIOLOGY COURSE FOR BOTH OF YOU. Evolutionary biology is supported by scientific facts. ID and creationism are unsupported assertions and little more. Furthermore, there is no evidence that information cannot gain in the genome, and you know that it can be changed by way of mutation..

I will cite two examples of observed evolution one observed in the lab, the other in the field.

In the lab the tetraploid orchids produced offspring with twice the chromosones of the parent populations. They were larger and more robust , therefore suggesting that the specified phenotype must of changed. This change is accomplished by copies of info, and can therefore, be seen to have increased info.

A second example is clear evidence of speciation. About one hundred yrs ago Europeans brought with them seeds for a Goatsbeard plant variety. Seventy yrs later after having released it in the USA, the new plants that spread around the country, barely resembled the parent population, furthermore they met the criteria for speciation.....in that they were reproductively isolated from the originals brought over from the old country.

As for your silly attacks on evolutionary theory. I could easily attack the nonsense of the creationist hack site called Answers in Genesis. I would suggest the counter site called "No Answers in Genesis. And while you are at it exp[lain to me why your god made light before the sun, and how he made birds before sea creatures when the evidence clearly and convincingly states otherwise. Or maybe try to offer up an argument against Thomas Paine's "Age of Reason" in which he states that " there is not one known biographer, scribe, historian or writer from the time and place that Jesus is said to have lived, who even mentions him as a man."

Now, if you want to continue digging a deeper whole with such nonsense, the 30% of humanity, whose minds have been enslaved by the nonsensical religious doctrine that you embrace , will eventually stand up and say ENOUGH! File Christianity with the other mythology of the world, and look upon it with the low esteem that it deserves.


Dear guest,

Thank you for your eloquent input. Now, let me ask you why you're posting on this website? Is your purpose to attempt to shame or to whip us foolish believers into shape? I marvel at the vigor with which seemingly faithless people like you attack believers like us. Why waste your time? We cannot harm you with our ignorance, can we? Allow me to pose a different point of view. Both science and religion fumble when they attempt to try to explain the miracle of existance. Likewise, Godly people fumble when they attempt to explain God. There are things in this world that defy explanation, which leads the truly enlightened to seek further understanding. We do not have all of the answers and will not have them until we are in the presence of the Almighty. I won't trifle with point- counterpoint activities about variation among species of plants and which came first, the fish or the bird. I do not subscribe to Bibliolatry but do have faith in God and in his Grace. I would venture to suggest that you and others who like you, rail about the foolishness of God really believe in God but are angry. Angry about the state of this world and of its people. These things are not caused by God but by the very people to whom He gave free will. God is there to help us fix our world but we need to seek Him out. Many more than the thirty percent of the worlds population that you cite need to get onboard. Foolish as it may seem, I see this as worthwhile. Otherwise, I'd be doing nothing but waiting around to evolve. I will pray for you as I pray for others who seek to know the mysteries before them.

Peace,

Rich
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Dr. Bob
Guest





PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This would probably be for both Guest and Basilosaurus, since Basilosaurus is arguing with Guest.

Before I take the time and effort to decode your comments, please answer the following questions.
1. Are your comments a result of random collisions of atoms and molecules that just happened to correspond to words and sentences in the English language?


2. Or, are your comments a result of intelligent thought that has allocated meaning into groups of symbols conveying concepts, expectations and purpose in the English language?

If it is the former then it would be useless for me to attempt decoding the comments. If it is the latter, then I am willing to attempt the decode, but we must first agree upon a few definitions. Since you probably won't accept my definitions, I will try to work with yours. The following is the dictionary definition of "definition" that avoids logical fallacies. A description or explanation of a word or thing, by its attributes, properties or relations that distinguishes it from all other things. Britannica World Language Edition of Funk and Wagnalls Standard Dictionary, 1962



Please give universal definitions for the following words:

- biological evolution
- information
- intelligence
- thought
- ideas
- reason
- logic

Bob Compton, DVM, PhD
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bartii



Joined: 31 Mar 2005
Posts: 180
Location: Boise, ID

PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2005 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rich,

I started this conversation with Harvard getting millions of dollars to basically debunk Creationism. The conversations that are happening are pure educational for everyone. The conversations can help better educate those of us who don't believe in the belief/religion of Evolution and how that belief is incorporated into science.

We have to remember that science is just that, but evolution, Creation, and IDism is belief incorporated into science. I have learned a couple of new things concerning evolution. So, it has been good for me.

Welcome to this site Dr. Bob. Are you an IDer or Creationists?
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Guest






PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2005 1:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rich,

I have no problem with those who believe in supernaturals. I do take issue with those who challenge science with something other than science. My view that gods are conceptions of the mind should offend no one, unless their faith is extremely fragile.

Dr Bob,

I have defended science, as peer reviewed science would defend the comments that I have made here. If you would like to challenge my comments, feel free to do so...I am not however, interested in offering definitions that will waste my time. I am well aware of the definition issue regarding information among creationist camps. I am not interested in a semantics debate.

PS I am basilosaurus and guest, as my password has sporadically gained me entry to this site.
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Guest






PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2005 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anonymous wrote:
Rich,

I have no problem with those who believe in supernaturals. I do take issue with those who challenge science with something other than science. My view that gods are conceptions of the mind should offend no one, unless their faith is extremely fragile.

Dr Bob,

I have defended science, as peer reviewed science would defend the comments that I have made here. If you would like to challenge my comments, feel free to do so...I am not however, interested in offering definitions that will waste my time. I am well aware of the definition issue regarding information among creationist camps. I am not interested in a semantics debate.

PS I am basilosaurus and guest, as my password has sporadically gained me entry to this site.



Basilosaurus a.k.a. Guest,

Thanks for your reply. You may be surprised to read that I agree completely with your last entry. I cetainly allow you your thoughts on the subject of faith as well.

Now let me drill down a bit to where I think your statement goes. You seem to believe that faith in God is a generic activity. I would like to suggest however that in the future, while you go about making your case against God, you refrain from using language that implies that those who believe are unscientific, silly or superstitious. This is just inflaming and detracts from your position as scientific. Keep to one argument, say, against Monotheism too, since your last entry speaks against polytheism and idolatry. You will find that believers in God will share your viewpoint on this. In short, if you're going to pose a scientific argument, then make a scientific statement. Become informed about that which you say you don't believe in so your argument is credible. My faith is indeed strong enough for challenge but I'm not sure exactly what the challenge is here.

In closing, I have spent twenty-five years working in the field of medicine and I can assure you that I have a very scientific mind which is not given to myths and fairy tales. In this time too, I have seen much evidence to support the existance of God, Supernatural, Intelligent Force or whatever name suites the scientist best.

Rich
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bartii



Joined: 31 Mar 2005
Posts: 180
Location: Boise, ID

PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2005 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Since you probably won't accept my definitions, I will try to work with yours.
Dr. Bob

Basilosaurus a.k.a. Guest,

I don't get it. Confused Here is someone who is willing to debate the issues yet you won't even though he is willing to make it a level playing field. He wants to make it so that you both have the exact same understanding of what certain words mean. Question

Here I was really excited about learning through a debate. Obviously I can't debate in the best scientific terms as I am still learning. Here was a chance of a rational, logical, intelligent, and reasonable debate(depending on what those words mean) between two knowledgable people using scientific terms to debate the issue. The only thing Dr. Bob asked for was some definitions to words.

Our loss.
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Guest






PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2005 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Barti,

Dr Bob is more than welcome to go back to his Biology 101 textbook for definitions. If he wants terms defined within the context of his challenge, I will do so. He is the one putting his alleged academic credentials out for show here, I would think he could incorporate a request for definitions into his challenge.
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Guest






PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2005 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Barti,

Furthermore, Dr. Boib seems to think he is decoding some sort of secret. Nothing could be further from the truth. Peer reviewed science is on display in the public domain.
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