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Gifted Child

 
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Rich



Joined: 18 May 2005
Posts: 173
Location: Coastal New England

PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 11:31 am    Post subject: Gifted Child Reply with quote

Hi guys,

I received this today in email and had to post it. I can't think of anything more compelling than the story of this child to reveal the glory of God.

http://tinyurl.com/yxewot

Enjoy,

Rich
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homeschooling since '97: daughter, 18- away at college, son, 16 and daughter 13
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basilosaurus



Joined: 16 Dec 2005
Posts: 58

PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.

Note how no one else spoke in the clip. None of her family members, not one loved one could contribute to this piece. It suggests reasons to be skeptical.
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Rich



Joined: 18 May 2005
Posts: 173
Location: Coastal New England

PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

basilosaurus wrote:
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.

Note how no one else spoke in the clip. None of her family members, not one loved one could contribute to this piece. It suggests reasons to be skeptical.



Basilosaurus,

You seem to be digging up my posts and making jibes to get my attention. I wonder if this really means that you tire of your own dismal proclamation of a finite existance and you seek some deeper meaning in your life. You seem to really want to understand spirituality otherwise, you wouldn't keep coming back. Fighting with me about the subject of faith in a higher power is interesting to you but if you're looking for another draining go 'round, don't bother because I'm done with that. I've decided to just pray that you find insight and peace in your life.

Your friend,

Rich
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basilosaurus



Joined: 16 Dec 2005
Posts: 58

PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ahhh Rich,

No, it is just that you continue to drag your religion into an educational site, as do others, and you expect not to be challenged from the rationalist among us.

Furthermore you fail to even respond to the content in my post.

As to dismal proclamations, can it become more dismal when one clings to a supernatural entity that has not a shred of evidence more, in support of it's existence than even dear old Santa Claus himself? As to finite existence, you should know that even the universe that we live in has such constraints upon it. I will live on through my children without indocrinating them into religious doctrine.

Finally I find your behavior on this site disturbing in that you enjoy proselytizing at every opportunity, and are taken aback when such behavior is scrutinized. But, that is how the religious have always behaved in this country........as if their silly ideology and wold views are above scrutiny and intellectual inquiry.
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basilosaurus



Joined: 16 Dec 2005
Posts: 58

PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rich,

One other point. I entered this subject thinking I could discuss gifted children because I have a child who others seem to think is gifted. I am not yet convinced that he is.

What you offered was evangalism at best, and you know it. I consider it a deceitful tactic in opening what could have been a nice discussion on gifted children. I would suggest your religious musing be kept to the bible thread and we wont have to lock horns continually.
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Frank



Joined: 13 May 2005
Posts: 148
Location: Seattle

PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, let's discuss "giftedness" without a supernatural component.

My kids were tested (Weschler WISC-IV) in first grade for the "highly capable" progam in their school district and both scored in the 99+ %ile. Typically our society, in the person of IQ tests, calls anybody above 98.5 (cutoff point for National Merit Finalist standing) "genius" or "gifted."

Is this the definition ya wanna work with? Obviously, it eliminates "specific genius" like a music prodigy (or a talented child painter) who is not an idiot-savant but is, nontheless, merely average in everything but their special talent. A different kind of genius. Or a "physical genius" like Michael Jordan.

This is a topic which interests me and I'd be happy to discuss it.

Frank

P.S. In the interest of full disclosure, my wife has never taken any IQ test except the National Merit test in high school where she made Finalist, so she's at least 98.5 %ile and, therefore, a "genius." I've taken several diferent IQ tests and score 99.9 %ile so I, too, am a "genius." Who'da thunk it?
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basilosaurus



Joined: 16 Dec 2005
Posts: 58

PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frank,

My child behaves like any slightly above to above average child. He is a grade ahead in math and his reading skills are off the charts. His math scoring was, I believe, in the high nineties. He appears to offer a higher degree of erudition and verbal skills than most kids his age, although most of his friends are a bit older than he is, and I think he does well with kids who have a year or two on him.

He is seven going on eight. He spent his Sunday mornings between the age of 2 and 6 in a three hour Russian language class. Which reminds me that we need to get him back into Russian instruction. He knows a lot of Russian words but little grammar. He recently left the Academy of Russian Ballet for Circus performance, and enjoys science museums wherever they might be. That is, except for the one in Kentucky where the theme is biblical creationism and the displays include humans walking with dinosaurs. He explains to all his friends that birds are actually dinosaurs, and that the fossil Archeopteryx is an example of direct evidence supporting his statement.

We suspect our kid is quite normal and intelligent at the same time. We continue to watch for any behavior that we might deem precocious besides his advanced swimming skills , but we hardly long for it.
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Frank



Joined: 13 May 2005
Posts: 148
Location: Seattle

PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok. I think I understand where you're coming from. First, lemme make some comments in the context of ordinary sociocultural usage of, and belief in, "giftedness."

At this age, his reading and verbal skills are what would most tend to make others think of him as gifted. Most IQ tests in this age range rely to a great extent on reading comprehension and vocabulary skills plus verbal interaction with the tester. A "good" test, like the Weschler, tests for other components, too; but honestly, reading/verbal is the strongest indicator for scoring purposes of the skills tested.

It should be obvious to even the most casual observer that this leaves the test's validity vulnerable in two significant areas (For the purposes of this discussion, we won't go into other vulnerabilities.): 1. A kid who is shy, even if he is volubly verbal when comfortable, will not perform well on the verbal portion of this test when talking to a scary stranger (the tester). 2. Kids mature at different rates, especially boys. A kid who has poor reading/comprehension skills at 7 or even 8 and scores in the 50th %ile (usually even lower) when tested at that age can subsequently reach a critical psycho-biochemical event and "suddenly" jump into the genius range at age 9. Not typical, but not unheard of; and it is typical for a "slow starter" to jump from a very low %ile rating to an average or even above average %ile once they hit that biological development plateau.

Piaget and other researchers knew this more than half a century ago. Modern educators forget such realities as they try to shoehorn all kids into a defined performance set for a given age, often permanently labelling a kid as "slow" when he is, in point of fact, well above average *now*. However, once an educationalese label has been attached to a kid, it's nearly impossible to remove or change it.

Slight digression. I got a degree in Secondary Education in 1970. When I was in school, we read Piaget, Adler, Neill, Holt, etc. We were taught that these people had done significant work and/or explored important aspects of child development and/or education. Ask any teacher who graduated in the last decade or even in the last couple of decades if they recognize any of these names. They don't even know who most of these GIANTS are, much less know what they had to say. It's pathetic.

Ya know what? I'm starting to get wound up into rant mode. Lemme back off and just stop there and return to the root of this discussion. So, socioculturally speaking, your kid probably is gifted. Sounds like it to me. That's great. Enjoy it. Hopefully, it will lead to him living an examined life. Wonderful stuff.

But how meaningful is this label?

Society tends to associate giftedness with performance or production of something societally important or meaningful. Edison [homeschooled!] comes immediately to mind because for me he's a perfect foil to discuss. IMO, Edison was not a genius. He was one of those classic second-tier people, with an overachiever personality. Personally, I call these types the two percenters. They're above average, even well above average, but they don't quite qualify for gifted/genius status and they certainly don't qualify for the Triple Nine Society. Most of 'em are in MENSA. However, because they are aware of their status, or simply because it's their personality, they WORK harder than most people and have a focus to prove themselves. Thus, they become achievers and fit the social model of "genius" in that they produced something of note.

So, once again, we come back to defining terms. If your IQ is really not all that high but you produce something notable, are you a genius? Conversely, if your IQ is high but you don't do anything socially significant, are you, therefore, not a genius?

Brief aside: Another line of thought which I think is important to pursue in parallel with defining giftedness/genius is personality. Generally speaking, how many "notable" (gifted/genius?) people in history were happy people? Or nice? Decent family men or women? Most notable people I've read or heard about were pretty stinky human beings. That gives me pause and is something I've spent a goodly number of hours contemplating.

Also, the other conditions I mentioned initially are still open to definition, too. Is an idiot-savant a genius? In his particular skill, he certainly is (by definition); but if he can't tie his own shoes…, well, that leaves *me* undecided about his overall label. I guess idiot-savant should be satisfactory.

As the Pythons say: And now for something completely different.

So, as you may know from reading my posts, we're unschoolers a la John Holt. Now, if you wanna make an unschooler crazy, just bring up the subject of labelling kids. Ack! An unschooler would oppose this labelling on several different fronts. 1. Standardized testing is essentially invalid and useless in any real-world sense. 2. Every kid is an individual and requires/deserves an individual education. Rating or ranking against others is meaningless in this context. 3. Every kid is unique and therefore has his/her own pallet of talents and skills and a separate pallet of stuff they ain't so good at. So what?

We are all geniuses, idiots, or idiot-savants in any given time, place, or situation. Don't get sucked into the labelling game. Your kid is simply your kid; he is not any label. There are so many examples in history of mislabeling being imposed on someone by others or "society." Augustine was thought to be retarded by those around him but turned out to be one of the most notable and influential philosophers of all time. Certainly not my personal cup of tea but socially significant in the history and process of philosophical thought.

So in summation, my personal position would be to absolutely ignore any attempt to label your kid. "Good" labels, like "gifted," can be just as damaging, just as harmful as "bad" labels. Enjoy him simply for who he is.

Final comment. I have a neighbor who's retarded. I've had more interesting conversations with him than with pedantic MENSA doofuses who think they're smarter than they actually are. When I'm considering interacting with someone (making friends, whatever) I don't care whether he's gifted/genius level or retarded, according to somebody's imposed label. Is he a nice person? For me, that's a much more important quality and one which any human being is capable of accomplishing.

Frank
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!!aakash!!



Joined: 14 Jul 2012
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

my chid is 4 and he knows swimming, he can swim well , yes not very long laps but he swims well, should i consider it to be a prodigy , is he special ! ofcourse he is for me...
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tedrashwin



Joined: 02 Aug 2012
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 11:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

right your child is special for me,in that early age your child develop that skill,hope my chill can learn that also.
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gombanert



Joined: 27 Apr 2017
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 2:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think that all children are gifted
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